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Please read up to page 277 in Dune and post appropriate comments/questions. Be prepared to discuss! Resist the urge to sit quietly (except Katia, who has no voice)!!!
Please read up to page 277 in Dune and post appropriate comments/questions. Be prepared to discuss! Resist the urge to sit quietly (except Katia, who has no voice)!!!
When Jessica first arrived on Arrakis, she was enthusiastic about her new home-or at least she was in the mini-series- but now she appears to be aggravated with Arrakis.
“She tried to see the desert through his eyes, seeking to encompass all the rigors this planet accepted as a commonplace, wondering at the possible future Paul has glimpsed.” (262).
“The night is a tunnel, she thought, a hole into tomorrow…if we’re to have a tomorrow. She shook her head. Why must I be so morbid? I was trained better than that!” (263).
How has Jessica changed through the course of the novel? Have Paul’s Bene Gesserit abilities surpassed Jessica’s?
In Kyne’s delusions, his father lectures him about Arrakis and how a planet can become successful.”‘We must do a thing on Arrakis never before attempted for an entire planet,’ his father said. ‘We must use man as a constructive ecological force-inserting adapted terraform life: a plant here, an animal there, a man in that place- to transform the water cycle, to build a new kind of landscape.’” (274). Is Herbert commenting on the flaws of humans’ selfish actions and how they are destroying their home?
I don’t understand who Staban Tuek is (the person who Gurney Halleck pledges his allegiance to). He wears Fremen robes, but he is not Fremen, as he says “Do you wish to choose now between me and the Fremen?”. I understand he is a smuggler, but what group the smugglers belong to, who are they loyal to?
Kynes’ delusions with his father talked a lot about the ecology of Arrakis. It seems pretty certain that the water, spice, and worms are all related, and the Fremen have somehow figured how to make the worms obey them. Clearly, there is water below the surface of the sand, and its necessary to make the spice? And when a worm attacks Paul and Jessica, Paul notices that its breath smells like spice, wondering “what has the worm to do with the spice, melange?” It seemed as if Paul was about to figure it out and enlighten the reader, “an answer lay poised at the edge of his awareness, but refused to come”(267).
It seems that Arrakis has a way of making it’s citizens wise. AFter all, Paul cites the spice as the cause of his new super senses. But we see Stilgar and Kynes, fremen leaders and they have an air of boundless wisdom about them. Even Tuek the smuggler has “wisdom and sympathy” in his voice (259). Is it all the spice these people are breathing in that allows them to access these higher cognitive processes?
“They’ve come! Kynes thought. My Fremen have found me!
Then he heard the sand rumbling.
Every Fremen knew the sound, could distinguish it immediately from the noises of worms or other desert life. Somewhere beneath him, the pre-spice mass had accumulated enough water and organic matter from the little makers, had reached the critical stage of wild growth…Am I a desert creature, Kynes thought. You see me, Father? I am a desert creature” (277).
The ending of this reading section — when Kynes is swallowed by the sand dunes — was quite symbolic. Kynes calls out in happiness that his Fremen aids have come to save him, and the symbolism lies in the fact that Kynes is actually being swallowed by the sand dunes that bring him to feel moisture and water under the ground. We talk about how the Kwisatz Haderach acts as the Fremen’s hope for their freedom, but we continue to ask ourselves what the Fremen hope to be let free from… Could it be that only when one has escaped completely from the Spice, as in Kynes’ case, is he/ she free? Free from the Spice’s addiction?
Also, it’s clear that the worms have a major role in obtaining water from under the dunes. Maybe the Fremen trap the worms on top of the dunes and travel in the worms’ trails to reach deep under the ground to the water?…
ok so just clarifying- kynes is dead right (and by dead i mean obvi hiding in the secret palace garden room)?
“No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero.” What does this mean? is he talking about Paul?
and as for what clarrencedarrow just commented about the fremen following the worms, isn’t water poisonous to the worms? so they wouldn’t exactly be going towards it..i don’t know, i think it’s more likely that the fremen do know where they can find water, but they don’t want to because it will kill the worms, and they can’t do that cause worms make spice..or something along those lines..i think the book talked more about the water/spice relationship a bit more in the part we just read, but i didn’t really understand it..
In response to tpainecs comments about the spice and the people of Arrakis, and the spice helping the humans access “higher cognitive processes” such as “wisdom and sympathy”: it just got me thinking about the role of the spice. Are humans more human when they take the spice? If human qualities include wisdom and sympathy, and those are heightened on the spice, are humans better, or more intensely human when they take the spice? Or are they less human because their thoughts are being manipulated and amplified by an outside force? Where do you draw the line between being a “better” or “worse” human? Is such a comparison even possible to make?
Also, I just wanted to comment on the staccato writing style on page 266 when Jessica and Paul are escaping. This is one of the few times when Herbert changes the writing style to match the action taking place. It just stuck out to me, and I wonder why he chose this scene.
In the previous reading section, Jessica admitted to fearing her son and what he has to say (what he might say about the future). She also is impressed with his ability to save her and the pack from suffocating under sand. But, because of this newfound fear and heightened respect, Jessica is much more formal when speaking to Paul. This formality is also reflected in the reading from last night. In the beginning of Dune, Jessica was very maternal, especially when the Reverend Mother game to test Paul; do you this Jessica has lost this maternity or that it is just block by other, stronger emotions right now? Also, do you think this change in roles (Paul seems more like the parent now) will strengthen or weaken Paul and Jessica’s relationship?